Thursday, 6 June 2013

Living in Religious Stupidity - A Post About Children Killed by Nutter Church

Last night I posted this brief bit about an article I'd read in People Magazine:

'I found an article in People Magazine entitled "Did Their Faith Kill Their Kids?" - be afraid when you read anything with a title such as that. This article was about a couple, Mr. & Mrs. Schaible, of whom two of their children had been sickening, let two of them die from bacterial pneumonia. First it was their 2-year0old Kent, who died in 2009, then Brandon, their 8-month-old son, died on 18 April 2013. A court in Philadelphia has charged them with murder, because they would not get either child to the doctor because their crazy church wouldn't let them! These two kids died from an easily treatable disease! They have lost all of their children and are in jail. Hopefully they will never get out.'

I got responses:


  • Deborah Sweet Wow, how awful. Hope they never see the light of day again.
    16 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 1
  • Aislínge Kellogg de Gómez Yes. It's bad enough I know people who won't get their kids inoculated because they operate under the incorrect and misguided notion that those inoculations cause some form of Autism (they don't - I've attended classes for EMTs to deal with patients who are Autistic and no one believes that this is the case). That is bad enough. And they tell the school system that they are into some religion that is against this so that their kids can go into school and infect others. How is THAT okay?!

    Gabriel Bakker 1) The church that convinced them not to go to the hospital is not facing any criminal charges at all. The pastor of that church is not the one in jail.

    2) You can't imagine what those parents are going through. They lost their children and now on top of that have to spend the rest of their lives in jail.

    3) Children die after being taken to the hospital too - you don't put the parents in jail in those cases for TAKING the kids to the hospital, do you? You don't put the doctor in jail either.

    4) This country was founded upon freedom of religion - people have the right to follow whatever crazy religion they please, no matter how stupid it is, as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of other people. (In this case, it interfered with their children's rights)

    5) Those parents were duped by their church .. there are lots of churches out there of all kinds (including wiccan churches) that dupe their followers. That doesn't mean every wiccan church is bad, nor does it mean that every christian church is bad. But when someone experiences a tragedy as a result of following the practice of some cult, my reaction is to feel sorry for them, not angry. I'm sure they wish they were dead a million times over .. perhaps if anyone the pastor of the church should be the one in jail, not the parents.

    6) And most important, we have a right to not go to the hospital! It is a very important right! There are many diseases that doctors don't know how to treat and often they treat them by experimenting on patients with different drugs, because they're paid by Big Pharma to be drug dealers .. my mother has destroyed her health and messed up her life by trusting her doctor and taking the pills she's told to take, and they experimented all kinds of drugs on her, including many that are now illegal, and many that are dangerous as hell but, sadly are still being prescribed.

    Psychiatric medicine is the worst. If I was crazy I would still do everything I could to avoid going to the hospital, because if you do go to the hospital for a psychiatric disorder, you're almost guaranteed to be made worse.

    Doctors prescribe Ritalin, and Adderol (which are Amphetamines, called Speed on the streets) to children as young as 3 years old!!! Tell me thats not messed up!

    Would you rather live in a world where parents are forced to give their children speed because they were required to take their child to the doctor for behavior problems and the doctor decided he wanted to make some money selling the child speed instead of treating the actual issue?

    When I was a child diagnosed with extreme ADHD and borderline Autism, a doctor tried to prescribe me with ritalin. I thank GOD that my parents, for religious reasons, were against giving me amphetamines when I was a child and refused. They discovered the Feingold Diet instead, which mandates avoiding eating Petroleum Based Food Dyes (called Artificial Colors) which every civilized country in the world except for America has banned because the rest of the world knows they cause ADHD.. What if my parents were locked up for not following the doctors advise in my case? Instead of being gifted, I would have been stunted, as I watched the other children who grew up around me who had ADHD's lives slowly degrade because of the drugs they never should have been given in the first place.

    Nothing is as simple as it seems, and these parents already wish they were dead .. nothing we can say here will make anything better or worse for them, but I'm shocked to hear you react so strongly with hatred towards them.

    Surely you don't believe parents should be required to always follow the advise of doctors in hospitals, do you? what kind of police state do you want to live in?

    • Aislínge Kellogg de Gómez It's my opinion. It's one thing for adults to make his or her own decision. It is up to parents to do what they can to nuture and protect his or her children. Kids can't make that decision. And I wouldn't compare this to speed. I'm personally against giving kids drugs for ADHD, as it happens - something like 85% of the population has it. I always joke that the 15% without ADHD should be on something to give them ADHD. But allowing your kids to die for something like a misguided religion - to me - is wrong. I'm entitled to my opinion.
    • Gabriel Bakker I agree that its a messed up situation, a terrible thing. And my rant was probably a bit long and overboard and perhaps even irrelevant.

      But I think perhaps we should blame the church that misled the people too if we're going to be so angry .. how is this any different then some nutcase religious cult tricking hundreds of people into drinking poisoned coolaid?

      And also I don't want to live in a world with mandatory hospitalization .. I don't trust doctors, I've seen too many times when they screwed people up by prescribing drugs that were completely unnecessary and under tested.
      15 hours ago · Unlike · 1

      • Aislínge Kellogg de Gómez Fortunately for me, my doctors have worked so hard on my behalf. This is a terrible condition to live with - although not as bad as others - and my docs have helped me to make it bearable. To keep me walking and able to get out of bed.
      • Aislínge Kellogg de Gómez However, you are right in that the church should be held liable. I just can't fathom how the parents could buy into it. I'm naturally leery of religion in its own right - the daughter of an atheist and an agnostic, this will happen. I made my own choice as an adult (I feel that way about religion, too - don't program your kids, let them pick and choose when they are old enough. Besides, I've noticed that most Christians sort of "lose the way" the more their parents pushed it), and would never have gotten into the idea that medical treatment is bad. Also, Ray was raised as a Christian Scientist and quickly dumped that as an adult. They believe in the same thing: prayer heals, doctors don't. It scares me that anyone could try to sell that. Just scares me to my bones.
      • Gabriel Bakker If I was facing a disease like the one their kids had, or if I had kids with that disease, I would go to a hospital/take the kids to a hospital. For things that modern medicine has "down-pat" I would trust a doctor for.

        But for things like (especially psychiatric issues, I do not trust psychiatric doctors as far as I can throw them. Too many of them are just drug dealers, and they take the most innocent people (like little children) hooked on drugs that they have no idea what they're for.
      • Deborah Sweet It is wrong to assume that parents have the legal right to withhold medical treatment from minor children. They do not, regardless of religion. Every state in the Union has laws which compel parents to give children life-saving medical care. IF a Dr. or hospital knows a minor is deliberately being withheld from lifesaving care, court orders can be issued, and treatment given. Many of these laws came about because of Jehovah's Witnesses, but they apply to any sect which holds that modern medical intervention is unnecessary, and that God heals all.
        I'd have more sympathy for the parents if they hadn't allowed a second child to die. They should have learned from the first one. At least the rest of their children will now have a sporting chance of growing to adulthood.
        Whether people like it or not, we have a responsibility to protect those who are weaker or have less power or voice.
        Can anyone really believe that someone's beliefs take precedence over the life of a child who cannot speak for themselves? Our courts don't.
        15 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 2

        As you can see, it turned into quite a long conversation. We argued, saw each others points, all found it to be tragic and awful. I never can fathom what makes people turn to a religion that, like fad diets, cut out whole aspects of life. And I stand by my assertion that for an adult to make the decision to allow a curable condition to kill her or him is one thing, but to not protect and nurture your children to ensure they make it to adulthood is just wrong.

        And as Deborah pointed out, it is not legal to allow one's children to end up dead because some nutter of a priest pushed them to just pray instead of mixing prayer with a doctor's knowledge to save them. There are times that I agree with Republicans that we have too many bloody laws dictating what we do/don't do, how to live/not live, and there are times when I can see why certain laws are put in place. At times we are too ignorant (I'll say that instead of "stupid", because sometimes it is just plain old ignorance) to be allowed to do as we please. That doesn't sound too nice, but there it is. I supported passing laws regarding blue headlights, tinted car windows and wearing seat belts. It needed to be done.

        This article was shocking. It was awful to read that a family let two of their kids die of something so easily cured. It was appalling. And you know me. If it is something that means a lot to me, then it is time to talk about it.

1 comment:

Mind Of Mine said...

I can't my head around those situation, so ridiculous, so unnecessary and so tragic.